An online
debate between
Walter ReMine (creationist/Intelligent Design theorist)
and Dave Thomas (evolutionist).
ARGUING FOR THE NEGATIVE of
"Comparisons of molecules (proteins, DNA) of various species provide
independent and compelling support for the hypothesis of biological
macro-evolution"
By Walter ReMine (Response
#1 of 3)
In creation-evolution debates,
evolution isnt mere change in gene
frequencies. Unless context indicates otherwise, it refers,
ultimately, to naturalistic molecules-to-man transformation
anything less involves creation.
Macroevolution makes the large-scale
transformation fully explicit.
Discrete, unlinked, examples of
microevolution such as nylon-ingesting bacteria, finch-beaks,
or new species fail to establish large-scale
evolution.
Evolutionary explanations
arent now and never were limited to descent
with modification.[1]
Table-1:
Evolutionary explanations partial list
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Name:
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Examples:
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Evolutionary experts
embracing it:
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E1
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Common descent.
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Includes E2/E3/E4/E5
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All
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E2
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Anagenesis
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Transformation within
single lineage
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All
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E3
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Cladogenesis
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Splitting a lineage
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All
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E4
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Loss
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Traits are lost
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All
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E5
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Replacement
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Traits are replaced
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All
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E6
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Convergence
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Complex similarities that
cannot be explained by E1-thru-E14.
Therefore called Independent origin of
similar traits
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All
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E7
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Lamarckism
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Inherited use-and-disuse
of parts
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Darwin thru mid-1900s. Still sought by some
evolutionists.[2]
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E8
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Atavism - genetic
throwbacks
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Masked ancient traits
unmasked into distant descendants transposes traits
across time. (Can theoretically mimic pattern
E9)
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Leaders from Darwin to
Gould.[3]
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E9
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Transposition
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Ancient notion. Moves traits between distant lineages
lateral DNA transfer, plasmids, endosymbiosis,
leghemoglobin
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All (in microorganisms at
least). Syvanen (throughout life).[4]
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E10
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Recapitulation
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Peculiar embryological
mechanisms terminal addition &
telescoping acceleration
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Most in some form
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E11
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Multiple biogenesis
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Many life origins
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Woese,[5]
Dyson,[6] and others
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E12
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Incompleteness
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The data is
too incomplete
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Classical Darwinists
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E13
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Exobiology
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It came from
Space! Mars rocks, Directed panspermia, SETI,
Extraterrestrials, Ancient astronauts
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Hoyle, Sagan, many others
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E14
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Concerted
evolution
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Molecular
drive[7]
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All
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These explanations (except E9 among
microorganisms, and E4) were never experimentally demonstrated over
large-scales instead, their existence, rate, power, and
extent are inferred from the data-patterns
themselves! Thats
a huge difference! As
used by evolutionists, these explanations are pattern-based, not
demonstration-based. Evolutionary theory is a
smorgasbord of Natural explanations, and evolutionists
select those that seem to match the
data-patterns. I
call this Natural selection.
These evolutionary explanations do not
and never did predict a hierarchy pattern!
(Note especially E8/E9/E11/E13, also E4/E5/E6/E2/E12.) Evolutionary theory is structureless, and
predicts virtually nothing. It
adapts to data like fog adapts to landscape.
The data-patterns lend shape to an
otherwise structureless evolutionary theory then this
congruence is given as evidence for evolution as
used by evolutionists, its circular reasoning.
If humans cytochrome-c were completely
different from apes, my opponent naively thinks evolution
would have collapsed overnight. He forgot about
E8/E9/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6/E13/E14, which offer vast
explanations. Indeed,
evolutionists already accommodated analogous cases
(lamprey [cytochrome-c] appears closer to humans than
does that of tuna fish Thomas * )
Life contains substantial hierarchical pattern,
and virtually all macroevolutionary evidences hinge crucially upon
it. However, it isnt
evidence for evolution (since evolution doesnt predict
it), but against an ordinary designer, because no ordinary
designer creates substantial hierarchy pattern.
It doesnt occur by happenstance.
Message Theory solves this central riddle.[1]
Table-2: Message
Theory
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Life was reasonably designed:
- for survival,
- to look like the product of one designer (not
multiple-independent designers), and
- to resist all other explanations (including
Darwins, Lamarcks, Goulds,
Syvanens, Hoyles, and yours).
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Message Theory disallows encoded/encrypted
bio-messages (say, English text) as counterproductive.
They engender language barriers.
They dont serve survival.
Mutation causes their meaning to be altered, lost, or mistaken
for products of multiple-independent designers.
Rather, lifes message uses bio-complexity and the
simple universal language of similarity and
difference largely visible even to low-tech observers.
Message theory requires neither universal
acknowledgement of the message, nor perfection, nor falsification of
all alternatives. (Some are unfalsifiable
therefore unscientific by evolutionists own
definition.[8,9,10] Some E4/E11 are
insufficient. Others
E1/E7/E8/E9/E12/E13 are potentially powerful, so must be more
emphatically resisted. Some patterns E6/E14
favor Message Theory.) It
only requires that life be reasonably designed for the three
simultaneous goals. Unlike evolution, this
theory is risky and predicts lifes major patterns.
If so, then why were evolutionists so wrong, you
ask? Answer:
Because theyre overly impressed by their ability to
explain everything.
We must unmask how enormously amorphous evolutionary theory
really is. What can
naturalism not explain? What
patterns would help resist all naturalistic
explanations? Were
turning naturalisms colossal explanatory power back upon
itself.
If there existed no fossil record, then reasonable
observers would presume it massively incomplete
and arbitrarily fill-in the missing ancestors with
countless imaginings. Earths substantial fossil record is
required, ironically, in order to testify ancestors
arent there. But mere fossil existence
isnt enough in the adage of Message Theory: There are
many more fish to fry.
Biodiversity is designed for
ecological stability and simultaneously to thwart evolutionary
interpretations. Over
large-scales, biodiversity (including fossils) systematically
lacks the two independent
features expected from Darwinism:
- Gradualism
- Clear-cut ancestors and lineages
This substantially refutes common-descent
or prompts its unfalsifiable reincarnations {such as
Eldredge-Goulds theory[1,11,12,13,14]; or as extreme
(unsustainable) claims of fossil incompleteness(E12),
which Eldredge-Gould oppose.[15]}.
This brief introduction helps illuminate biomolecular
patterns.
Evolutionists could forever circumvent those fossil difficulties, if
complex traits were rampantly transposed between
morphologically-distant lineages here called
Transpositions. This exceedingly powerful
evolutionary explanation could potentially
explain-away the twofold absences of gradualism and
clear-cut ancestors/lineages. (Indeed,
that notion lay at the core of Syvanens evolutionary theory,
which assumes lateral DNA transfer between
higher-lifeforms.[4]) Transposition patterns, if sufficiently
sturdy, would nullify the fossil records
testimony against common descent therefore Message Theory
predicts lifes design avoids Transposition patterns.
Humans transpose designs anywhere useful (into
cars, buildings, etcetera) Transposition
is ordinary design practice.
But lifes designer avoided that.
Lifes designs are re-used, not randomly anywhere useful,
but in confined theme and variation patterns that
resist Transposition interpretations.
This feature profoundly distinguishes life from human-designed
systems.
The substantial absence of
Transposition patterns from macroorganisms (at morphological,
embryological, and biomolecular levels):
- Resists Transposition explanations(E9), Syvanens
theory, and genes from Space (Hoyles
theory)
- Resists Exobiology(E13)
- Shows lifes designer is unordinary
Lifes hierarchy patterns (cladistic
and phenetic):
- Supplies biodiversity for above-named purposes
while leaving ancestors out!(E1)
- Unifies all life together, as product of one designer
- Resists Transposition explanations(E9)
- Provides background, against which,
convergences(E6) are seen.
- Allows deep (rather than superficial) embedding of
bio-message; making it: resistant to mutation, and inseparable
from survival
- Resists incompleteness(E12).
The above properties retain perceptibility even when lifeforms
are severely unavailable.
These properties are vital for Message Theory.
The traits evolutionists call
convergences(here including
parallelisms), favor Message Theory which explains
their abundance. {Similar
arguments apply to biomolecular patterns called concerted
evolution.(E14)} These complex designs are:
sufficiently similar (to demand special explanation), yet
sufficiently non-identical (to negate Transposition/Atavism
explanations), and systematically-placed (to negate explanation by
common descent). Evolutionists
are left with their least plausible explanation
independent origin of similar complex designs
such as your eyes and octopus eyes!
Convergences are
abundant (at morphological, embryological, and
biomolecular levels)[16]) because they:
- Help link diverse life-groups together, as products of one
designer
- Help thwart attempts to impose ancestors and
lineages onto lifes pattern[17]
- Demand explanation, while resisting
naturalistic explanations
But suppose morphological
convergences were produced by biomolecular
Transpositions (as in Syvanens Theory[4,18,19,20]).
This explanation is upset (again) by absence of
clear-cut Transposition patterns at the biomolecular level.
Transposition theories (like Syvanens) are resisted by
lifes patterns.
If a bio-sequence (protein/gene) were identical in
all species, it is trivially explained naturalistically
(by E1/E8/E9). To diminish such
naturalistic explanations, most all bio-sequences arent
identical for all species rather, theyre
distributed through bio-sequence-space to meet the
above-described Message Theory goals.
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The hierarchies (morphological,
embryological, and biomolecular) proudly displayed by
evolutionists never were predicted by evolution.
But Message Theory requires such patterns testifying,
Designed! Systematic
unity, lacking ancestors, gradualism,
atavism, Lamarckism, and Transpositions!
And fossils confirm it.
Message Theory turns the origins debate
inside-out.
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The preceding argument depended for its
fullest success on fossils.
The logic changes somewhat for lifeforms lacking fossilizable
morphology microorganisms. Here it matters less whether
lateral DNA transfer occurs, because there exist no fossils
sufficient for carrying the argument forward to completion.
Also, microorganisms go-anywhere, planetary
housekeepers must adjust to novel hazards.
This tips the balance of goals (toward survival, and away from
resisting lateral DNA transfer). Indeed, occasional transfer
of DNA fragments does benefit microorganisms adjusting to novel
environments: heavy-metals, unusual temperatures, etcetera.
Also, Message Theory shifts emphasis for microorganisms
toward resisting biogenesis. They accomplish this
generously, with virtually no fossil aid.
Microorganisms also expose evolutionary
theorys embrace of Transposition, and multiple genetic codes.
As challenged by my opponent: If macroscopic-life encompassed multiple genetic
codes then evolutionary theory might accommodate it, as
before, without ever experimentally demonstrating such origins
or it would suggest lifes creation (or later
experimentation) by multiple-independent designers.
If humans possessed a special genetic code, it would
suggest, for example, Earths visitation by ancient astronauts.
Life was successfully designed to resist all such
interpretations, and instead look like the product of
one designer.
CONCLUSION:
My opponent purveys illusions naïve
notions of what would disprove evolution, and false
notions of what evolution predicts as though
fog-shape predicts its landscape.
Macroevolutionary theory remains effectively structureless
even as data-patterns lend it an ephemeral, illusionary shape. Consequently,
evolutionists data-pattern arguments arent actually
for macroevolution, but against a designer they
misunderstood. Message
Theory solves the riddle.
*Two words were added by agreement of the debators to clarify
both a mistake in Mr. Thomas' first submission and Mr. ReMine's
quotation of that sentence.
REFERENCES:
[1] ReMine,
Walter J., 1993, The Biotic Message:
Evolution versus Message Theory, St. Paul
Science/publishers, P.O. Box 28006, Saint Paul, Minnesota 55128, ISBN
0-9637999-0-8, http://www1.minn.net/~science
[2] Steele, E.,
et al, 1998, Lamarcks Signature
[3] Gould, S.J.,
1983, Hens Teeth and Horses Toes
[4] Syvanen and
Kado/editors, 2002, Horizontal Gene Transfer, 2nd
Edition
[5] Woese, C.,
2002, On the evolution of Cells, PNAS, Vol. 99, Issue 13,
8742-8747
[6] Dyson, F.,
1985, Origins of Life
[7] Dover, G.,
2000, Dear Mr Darwin: Letters on the Evolution of Life and Human
Nature.
[8] Overton,
W.R., 1982, McLean v. Arkansas, Opinion of William R. Overton,
U.S. District Judge
[9] Aguillard v.
Edwards, 1986, Amicus Curiae Brief of 72 Nobel
Laureates, 17 State Academies of Science, and 7 other scientific
organizations p 23
[10] McCollister
B./editor, 1989, Voices for Evolution, NCSE
[11] Gingerich,
P., 1984, Darwins gradualism and empiricism,
Nature, Vol. 309, May 10, p 116
[12] Gingerich,
P.,1984, Punctuated equilibriawhere is the evidence?
Systematic Zoology, 33:335-338. (See also, Gould, S.J., 2002,
The Structure of Evolutionary Theory, p 149-150footnote)
[13] Schopf and
Hoffman, 1983, Punctuated Equilibrium and the Fossil
Record, Nature, Vol. 219, p 438-439
[14] Gayon, J.,
1989, in Evolutionary Biology, (Hecht/editor), vol. 24, p
10
[15]
Gould, S.J., 2002, The Structure of Evolutionary Theory.
[16] Gould,
S.J., 1980, The Pandas Thumb, p 271
[17] Cain, A.J.,
1982, On Homology and Convergence, Problems of
Phylogenetic Reconstruction, (Joysey/editor), Systematics
Association, p 1
[18] Syvanen,
M., 1985, Cross-species gene transfer; Implication for a New
Theory of Evolution, Journal of Theoretical Biology,
Vol. 112. p 333-343.
[19] Syvanen,
M., 1986, Cross-species gene transfer: a major factor in
evolution? Trends in Genetics, March, p63-66.
[20] Syvanen,
M., 1987, Molecular Clocks and Evolutionary Relationships:
Possible Distortions Due to Horizontal Gene Flow, Journal of
Molecular Evolution, 26:16-23